@mouse most people from the US only know of Japanese/Chinese soy sauce, which is always salty. but in Indonesia their sweet soy sauce (kecap manis) is equally if not more common than salty soy sauce (kecap asin). it's closer to Thai oyster sauce in taste and consistency.

@technomancy @mouse Lots of fermentations are controlled (well, *selected*, really) by salt, so it would make sense that many of these savory sauces would be salty.

I wonder if the heavy use of sugar in kecap manis plays a similar role as salt by lowering the water activity (in the same way that jams are moderately shelf stable).

Does it have much sourness to it? I'm wondering if there's much in the way of lactic acid production.

@technomancy @mouse OK, yeah, from Wikipedia: « Aspergillus wentii is moderately xerophile, able to tolerate very dry conditions with low water activity (with an a_W of 0.73–0.79 for growth and germination). »

And recipes I find for a "quick" version of it show about half and half water to sugar, so that probably answers that.

@mouse @technomancy@icosahedron.website i was in a famous supermarket the other day and couldn't find soy sauce, i was told it was in the international foods section. like, ooh so exotic. also, unrelated, i own a bottle banana ketchup. i think it's from the phillipines.

@mouse Interesting, I've always wondered if there was a connection between ketchup and ketjap, or that the similar sound was just a coincidence.

@mouse Interesting! It sure would change the flavors in a recipe to use ketchup instead of soy sauce.

@Cherishingsparrows2020@dingdash.com imagine pouring soy sauce all over a hot dog 🤔

@mouse The ketchup/soy sauce continuum actually answers a question that has lingered in the back of my head a long time. I used to regularly cook with “mushroom ketchup” all the time in the UK, but I didn’t know why it was called ketchup because it was a watery dark liquid with a mushroomy flavor. Now it makes all makes sense.

I think I have to read this book now.

@bibliotechy I recommend it! It's a light read and also wildly informative, which is a rare combination

@mouse

I always wondered where ketchup and especially catsup came from!